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Balancing Win-Cons


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#1
Lolilord

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Original Post (Before Edits):

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Fixes (With Edits):

 

Spoiler


#2
Commandant

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Only the blue and green seem to be definitive win conditions. Shoulka should probably only count your lands for its P/T, and the second ability doesn't seem to be particularly green (also somewhat strange that the "front" side is a green artifact). Blue one seems balanced if the set doesn't allow one to build an amazing pure control deck. Maybe remove the shroud from it. Also, shroud and hexproof probably shouldn't be in the same set.

 

The black sorcery I expected to reanimate. As it is, it's too expensive, and doesn't serve as a win condition. Along with the white one, unless this is a very slow format, these require too much investment for very little gain (i.e., if you can survive to that point, then you should have already won).

 

Red one doesn't deal enough damage to win if you're paying 5 mana just to cast it.

 

 

I'm also curious as to how you're distributing the mechanics in terms of which colours have access to them. Shroud/hexproof, for example, make sense as primarily green and secondarily in blue, but with hexproof and the newer cards in particular, white gives shroud/hexproof to you, the player, not your permanents.

 

The templating needs work. I realise that you've already created the images, but have you any plans to change the card text?



#3
Marvel Kid

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Since Magic is a game of mana, i dont see red card do much for the player itself. I mean you can cast all you have and use some cards to discard some cards but eventually it will deal damage to you aswell. And as soon as your opponent see's what that card do he will cast most of his cards. So the card is ok but it is not OTK like. Id suggest deal 2 damage for each card in hand. That is a strong burn effect.

 

For white they can summon fast, and they can just summon little W or 1W creatures to use Galascoda's effect. Correct me if I am wrong but tokens are on the use as well? Anyway Galascoda is cool, he is like a judgement angel and he boosts all creatures and gives them light.

 

I will skip the black one, since the general concept of 21 CMS is kinda off.

 

Epiphany has slight mistake in the first part of effect instead of "of" you should state "on". The rest is good to go.

 

And for green if I am right they will be able to manipulate their biffy leader and his stats, and even manipulate their life stats. Id say hard card to beat but it is able to be defeated. And also a new mistake i found is in the firts green card, in transform condition change the name to "Gatherer's Stone".



#4
Sertar

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To be fair, hexproof and shroud was on the same set in eventide.



#5
Lolilord

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So from what I gather, these are the problems:

 

 

General: I'm not sure what you mean by formatting being off, but I do intent to revise these until they are as good as possible.

 

Keywords: Also, as far as hexproof and shroud being in the same set, that's something I capitalize on, I bring in keywords from all over Magic, yes this makes the set harder to play, but it makes the combos so much more interesting. As far as which colors have what keywords, Anything can have any ability in this set BUT I say that with in reason, I'm not going to give a black creature shroud because it's cool and needs protection, I'm all about the flavor here. Yes, I value card balance a lot, but I understand that each color must have diversity. As far as locks on abilities, Red/Black has discard abilities, Black has kill abilities, Red has burn abilities, Blue has control abilities, Green has beatdown abilities-usually focusing on lands. , while white has stability abilities. That's the basics of the set. 

 

Red: Needs a buff, more consistency and damage. 

 

White: Power is redundant for game stage, by the time you have

 

Black: Also redundant, requires too much build up, and 21 CMC is off

 

Blue: Grammar error, shroud might be a bit much

 

Green: Naming error, and 

 

I'll make my changes in the post above, based off these problems. (I'll try and get the set on here, I had it on the site at one point but now the post is broken.)



#6
Commandant

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General: I'm not sure what you mean by formatting being off, but I do intent to revise these until they are as good as possible.

 

I will eventually update this with more complete information as the need arises. It might be difficult at times to reference existing cards if you miss some of them while searching.

 

Templating (rules text) fixes:

 

Cataclysmic Flames

At the beginning of each player's end step, Cataclysmic Flames deals 4 damage to that player unless that player has no cards in hand.

At the beginning of each player's end step, Cataclysmic Flames deals 4 damage to that player unless a creature he or she controls attacked this turn.

*Special note: I believe that if you want both conditions to be independent, they need to be written separately on different lines. It may not be necessary for this purpose, but it is the correct way of writing the text, I think. Feel free to show me something on Gatherer that contradicts this, if you know of it.

 

Galascoda, Beyond Legend

Shroud, indestructible

Other creatures you control have indestructible as long as you control five or more creatures.

Creatures you control get +4/+4 as long as you control ten or more creatures.

 

*Keyword order doesn't really matter. I just think that hexproof and shroud should come before indestructible because it's slightly more commonly found. Note that indestructible, like other keyword abilities, use "has/have" and not "is/are" with the newest changes to the errata. If it already has indestructible, then it ought to be written "other creatures". The conditions are written after the effect on all cards that specify "as long as". Also, one more thing about balance: I'm not too sure that it should have shroud and indestructible inherently, without some kind of condition. Perhaps once you adjust it, you might have it receive indestructible from having a set amount of creatures rather than immediately having it. Or, perhaps there are cards in the set to make creatures lose certain abilities?

 

The Dark One's Coming

Split second

The Dark One's Coming costs {1} less to cast for each creature card in a graveyard.

...

 

*Notice as well that keywords follow the capitalisation rules for standard English.

 

The Final Epiphany

Shroud

Whenever a player casts a spell, put a knowledge counter on The Final Epiphany.

Whenever you're dealt damage, remove a knowledge counter from The Final Epiphany.

You win the game if there are twenty or more knowledge counters on The Final Epiphany.

 

*Mechanically, each source of damage counts as one instance. The third line, meanwhile, is possible, but "you win the game" conditions are generally triggered at the beginning of upkeep. In which case, reference Helix Pinnacle.

 

Gatherer's Stone

At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control a land of each basic land type, transform Gatherer's Stone.

 

Shoulka, World Heart Titan

Trample, hexproof

Shoulka, World Heart Titan's power and toughness are each equal to the number of lands on the battlefield.

At the beginning of your upkeep, your life total becomes equal to the number of lands on the battlefield.

 

*Gatherer's Stone with this wording will count a dual land as both types, so you can transform it with 3 lands. The order of trample and hexproof does matter here.



#7
Lolilord

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Thanks for the tips, I'll take them into consideration, although I can very well counterfeit some of those arguments, I also recognize a lot of those as true. 

 

For example, the as long as argument is correct, but also doesn't matter. I'll probably still change it, but I only mind formatting errors when they interfere with card understanding. But on the point of Final Epiphany, for the second ability, the objective is to make it so if twenty creatures attack, it still only removes one counter. However, burn spells and things like that still narrow it down individually. It limits how much people can take away from you. And on the final ability of the Final Epiphany, reference this

 

So thanks for the help, but please don't take offense if I simply argue against some changes. Although it's certainly nice to have someone like yourself around who really has syntax and grammar down. 



#8
Commandant

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You can make the damage from multiple sources work with different wording. As it is, it isn't allowed, unlike with the "as long as" order. You need two lines, one specifying "whenever you're dealt noncombat damage", and "at end of combat, if you were dealt combat damage".

 

Darksteel Reactor does have that order with the wording, true, but it's still part of the upkeep as that is when it gets counters. Though it does work, I still think that it's strange to be able to Stifle it if it doesn't occur only during the upkeep (and that you're using "when" and "whenever" together with those abilities, just seems to be a static ability to me if it's checking for a "whenever" condition). The only card that I can reference for a static ability for winning the game is Coalition Victory.



#9
Lolilord

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You can make the damage from multiple sources work with different wording. As it is, it isn't allowed, unlike with the "as long as" order. You need two lines, one specifying "whenever you're dealt noncombat damage", and "at end of combat, if you were dealt combat damage".

 

 

But there are plenty of examples of multiple source wording, just try these

 

 

 

 

Darksteel Reactor does have that order with the wording, true, but it's still part of the upkeep as that is when it gets counters. Though it does work, I still think that it's strange to be able to Stifle it if it doesn't occur only during the upkeep (and that you're using "when" and "whenever" together with those abilities, just seems to be a static ability to me if it's checking for a "whenever" condition). The only card that I can reference for a static ability for winning the game is Coalition Victory.

 

 

 

Coalition victory is completely different due to the fact that it is a sorcery and thus it only checks once. However, on something like Darksteel Reactor, it doesn't matter when it happens, for example if I use Vorel of the Hull Clade to double it from 10 to 20, it still wins me the game, it doesn't wait until my upkeep. The thing is, I want the Final Epiphany to just go boom as soon as it reaches enough knowledge, much more reliable and flavorful that way. 



#10
Commandant

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But there are plenty of examples of multiple source wording

It's not a matter of sources, it's a matter of the trigger applying to every instance of damage, even if it happens simultaneously. A card with "whenever you would draw a card" triggers thrice from an Ancestral Recall. Combat damage, even if it happens simultaneously, isn't counted as one instance if there are multiple creatures.

 

I'll concede the other points as it's new ground and functionally, nothing changes. The damage condition, though, must be worded to work mechanically. If you wanted it immediately, and you don't mind the clunky wording:

"Once each combat, when you're dealt combat damage, remove a knowledge counter from The Final Epiphany."






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